河北燕達陸道培醫(yī)院新院區(qū)的竣工與搬遷標志著其陸道培醫(yī)療集團醫(yī)療服務能力邁向新高度。值此之際，國際血液學權威、斯坦福大學血液與骨髓移植項目主任、美國血液學會（ASH）候任主席Robert Negrin教授到訪，與帶領陸道培醫(yī)療集團的陸佩華院長展開深度交流，雙方圍繞細胞治療技術演進、CAR-T臨床挑戰(zhàn)與全球合作前景進行探討，一致認為跨地域協(xié)作與學術共享是推動全球血液病治療進步的核心動力?！赌[瘤瞭望-血液時訊》特整理中外對話內容，以期為血液學及細胞治療領域的發(fā)展提供兼具實踐參考與思想啟發(fā)的學術視角。
陸佩華教授
今年是陸道培集團發(fā)展具有劃時代意義的一年，占地97畝的燕達陸道培醫(yī)院新院區(qū)順利竣工并完成平穩(wěn)搬遷。借此難得的機會，我們深感榮幸，能夠邀請到Robert Negrin教授蒞臨我院進行訪問。Negrin教授是血液學領域享譽全球的權威學者，在過去二十年間一直擔任斯坦福大學血液與骨髓移植科主任，并曾先后擔任國際細胞治療學會（ISCT）及美國血液與骨髓移植學會（ASBMT）主席。此外，Negrin教授即將于2026年就任美國血液學會（ASH）主席。其在血液學領域發(fā)表了多項具有重大影響的學術成果，為推動學科發(fā)展作出了卓越貢獻。
值得強調的是，美國與中國是全球最具活力的兩大醫(yī)療體系，雙方在歷史沿革、組織結構和規(guī)模方面既存在諸多相似之處，也各有特點。但無論體系如何，其根本宗旨始終如一——一切以患者為中心，致力于為患者提供最優(yōu)質的醫(yī)療服務。在此，我們再次向Negrin教授致以誠摯的謝意。
Pro.Lu: This year signifies a turing point in the development of the Lu Daopei Medical Group: the new 97-acre Yan-Da Daopei Hospital campus has been successfully completed and the transition completed without disruption. On this momentous occasion, it is our distinct honor to welcome Professor Robert Negrin for a visit to our hospital. Professor Negrin is an internationally renowned authority in hematology, having served as Director of the Blood and Marrow Transplantation Program at Stanford University for the past two decades. He has previously chaired the International Society for Cellular Therapy and the American Society for Blood and Marrow Transplantation, and will assume the presidency of the American Society of Hematology in 2026. His extensive publications and transformative contributions have significantly advanced the field of hematology.
During his visit, we look forward to presenting our new campus to Professor Negrin. The United States and China represent the world’s two most dynamic healthcare systems. While historical development, organizational structures, and scales differ between our nations, both systems ultimately share the same fundamental objective: to deliver optimal care to our patients. Thank you very much.
Robert Negrin教授
今日深感榮幸能受邀蒞臨貴院，并與陸佩華教授共同見證新院區(qū)令人矚目的發(fā)展。我曾多次到訪貴院，去年亦曾來訪，然而在短短一年內取得的進展仍令我驚嘆。貴院是一座非凡的醫(yī)療綜合體，集卓越的活力、優(yōu)美的環(huán)境與頂尖的學術實力于一體。在我看來，中國——尤其在陸道培醫(yī)院——所取得的跨越式進展，與我們的共同點遠多于差異。我由衷為能參與其中感到欣喜。
正如陸教授所言，我們共同致力于探索如何更有效地治療復雜血液系統(tǒng)惡性腫瘤，始終以患者臨床獲益為最高目標。我們之間不存在競爭，而是充滿學術協(xié)作的伙伴關系。最令我印象深刻的是陸道培醫(yī)療中心所具備的技術能力，許多在我所在機構需外包完成的檢測和治療項目，在貴院均可通過院內平臺獨立完成，這種整合能力令人贊嘆。
Pro.Negrin: First of all, it is a great honor to be here with Dr. Lu and witness the remarkable developments taking place at their hospital. I visited this hospital several years ago and was also here last year, and it is truly remarkable to witness the progress achieved within just one year. This is indeed an extraordinary comprehensive facility—a fantastic hospital brimming with vitality, aesthetic appeal, and scientific expertise. Therefore, when I come here and observe the remarkable advancements occurring in China, particularly at Lu Daopei Hospital, I find that the similarities far outweigh the differences. I am extremely delighted to be here. As Dr. Lu mentioned, we share the common goal of exploring effective treatment approaches for complex blood cancers and striving to provide better care for our patients. Hence, we collaborate closely. There is no real sense of competition; instead, the atmosphere is one of collegiality, and we work together on similar endeavors. What impresses me the most is the technological capabilities of the Lu Daopei Medical Center. At our own hospital, many of the tasks and services we offer to patients would be outsourced to other institutions, whereas here, most of these tasks are completed in-house within their own facility. It is precisely these exceptional capabilities that leave the deepest impression on me.
陸佩華教授
非常感謝您對我院的認可和支持。我也無比榮幸曾以Robert Negrin教授為導師，如今我們的情誼早已超越了傳統(tǒng)師生關系的范疇。早年我在斯坦福大學Negrin教授的實驗室中系統(tǒng)學習了CIK細胞等細胞治療技術的基礎知識，從那時打下的根基出發(fā)，如今我們醫(yī)院在CAR-T細胞療法上也走在了前沿。
Pro.Lu: Furthermore, I consider myself extremely fortunate and honored to have Professor Robert Negrin as my mentor, and our relationship has long transcended the mere teacher-student dynamic. My journey in this field began with learning about cellular therapies—starting with CIK cells (cytokine-induced killer cells)—in the laboratory at Stanford University. Under Dr. Rob Negrin’s guidance, I systematically acquired all the fundamental knowledge essential to this discipline. From that foundational stage, we have now advanced to the frontier of CAR-T therapy (chimeric antigen receptor T-cell therapy).
Robert Negrin教授
陸教授不僅是我的學生，更是當今全球細胞治療領域最為重要的同行、合作者與領導者。每次來訪都是相互學習的過程，這種平等的學術對話恰恰是推動醫(yī)學進步的關鍵。
Pro.Negrin: Rather, I regard Dr. Lu more as a colleague who continues to teach me new knowledge and insights, especially given that he is now one of the world's leading experts in this field. For this reason, I have come here with the primary purpose of learning from her.
陸佩華教授
提到細胞治療領域，其發(fā)展是一個涉及多層面的復雜議題。過去幾年間，CAR-T細胞治療技術日趨成熟，該領域的新進展與突破可謂日新月異。從最初的自體CAR-T發(fā)展到通用型CAR-T，進而推進至體內CAR-T技術；從CAR-T擴展到CAR-NK、CAR-巨噬細胞等新型細胞治療策略；其應用范疇也從血液系統(tǒng)惡性腫瘤逐步延伸至實體瘤、自身免疫性疾病領域。近期更有研究論文指出CAR-T技術可能具有清除衰老細胞的潛力，或為抗衰老治療提供新方向。足以見得這一領域既充滿巨大機遇，也面臨重大挑戰(zhàn)。
過去十年來，本機構與多家CAR-T企業(yè)開展合作，共同推進多項臨床試驗，旨在使難治復發(fā)患者獲得更有效的治療選擇。盡管目前仍存在諸多挑戰(zhàn)，但我們期望通過持續(xù)優(yōu)化最終降低治療相關副作用，為患者提供更安全的治療方案。我們始終向包括Robert Negrin教授在內的國際權威學者學習，借鑒其先進經驗，以期更好地服務患者。
Pro.Lu: Well, this is indeed a lengthy and complex question. However, we have observed that CAR-T therapy has become increasingly mature over the past years, and we have witnessed numerous achievements and advances in this field even on a daily basis. The development of cellular therapies in this domain has progressed from autologous CAR-T therapy to universal CAR-T therapy, and it has now even advanced to in vivo CAR-T therapy. Beyond CAR-T therapy, the scope has further expanded to include other engineered cellular therapies such as CAR-NK (chimeric antigen receptor natural killer) cells and CAR-macrophages. Initially focused on the treatment of hematologic malignancies, the application of these cellular therapies has now extended beyond this realm to solid tumors, and it has even shown potential in the treatment of autoimmune diseases. We have also seen published research papers demonstrating that CAR-T therapy can clear senescent (aged) cells; perhaps, in the future, CAR-T therapy may even contribute to anti-aging effects. Nevertheless, it is evident that this field is filled with tremendous opportunities alongside significant challenges.
Over the past decade, our institution has collaborated with various CAR-T companies and conducted multiple clinical trials, with the hope that patients with relapsed and refractory diseases will be able to benefit from these efforts. Undoubtedly, there are still more challenges ahead, and we aspire to eventually reduce more of the side effects associated with these therapies and do more to improve the well-being of our patients. We are also learning from global experts such as Professor Robert Negrin, who is engaged in cutting-edge CAR-T research at Stanford University; we are drawing on all their valuable experiences, and once again, our ultimate goal is to continue doing more for the benefit of our patients.
Robert Negrin教授
科學研究的進展正是通過不斷總結有效方案、分析失敗原因并持續(xù)改進而實現(xiàn)。這一過程需要系統(tǒng)收集臨床數(shù)據(jù)、追蹤患者結局、運用科學研究方法解析當前面臨的挑戰(zhàn)。正如陸教授所言，我們需要通過反復迭代、開展更多臨床試驗、相互學習經驗來實現(xiàn)技術優(yōu)化?？茖W與醫(yī)學的本質正是在這種迭代中發(fā)展：總結成功經驗，摒棄無效方案，從失敗中學習，運用技術手段深入分析患者反應機制。
以CAR-T治療為例，目前治療失敗主要源于兩大因素：其一是靶抗原丟失導致CAR-T細胞無法識別靶點；其二是T細胞耗竭現(xiàn)象。針對這些問題，我們正通過開發(fā)雙靶點或多靶點CAR-T、采用健康供者來源的通用型CAR-T等策略予以改進。關鍵在于深入理解治療成功與失敗的機制，并據(jù)此優(yōu)化治療方案。
需要強調的是，無論患者來自美國、中國、歐洲或越南，其面臨的臨床問題本質相同。我們應當打破地域壁壘，加強國際合作與經驗共享，通過學術會議等交流平臺共同推動醫(yī)學進步，這正是舉辦陸道培血液病學術大會等學術會議的重要意義所在。
最后我想說，諸位血液疾病領域及醫(yī)學研究的年輕從業(yè)者，你們正投身于一項極具意義和價值的崇高事業(yè)。陸道培醫(yī)療團隊正是領域內的典范之一——不僅擁有卓越的硬件平臺，更匯聚了一群滿懷熱忱的引領者——從陸道培院士無處不在的遠見與精神傳承，到陸佩華教授等子輩所展現(xiàn)的榜樣力量，皆令人深受鼓舞。置身此地，你們已站在世界學術舞臺的中央，與全球同道并肩協(xié)作。我由衷地認為，能夠將科學與技術轉化為對患者的切實幫助，是職業(yè)生涯所能企及的最高成就。
Pro.Negrin: I believe Dr. Lu has covered all key points. In my view, this is precisely how we achieve progress: we identify effective approaches, pinpoint ineffective ones, and strive to make improvements. All of this is founded on collecting information and data, tracking clinical outcomes, and leveraging scientific principles to understand the challenges that lie ahead. As Dr. Lu mentioned, we continuously strive for better results—we iterate on our methods, conduct more clinical trials, learn from one another, and drive improvements. This is precisely how science and medicine advance: through an iterative process of embracing effective strategies, discarding ineffective ones, learning from failures, and utilizing technology to analyze patients in depth, thereby gaining a clear understanding of why treatments succeed for some patients.
For instance, we know that there are at least two primary reasons for treatment failure in CAR-T cell therapy. One is antigen loss, where tumor cells lose the specific target that CAR-T cells are engineered to recognize and attack. The second is T cell exhaustion, where the CAR-T cells themselves become functionally impaired and unable to sustain their anti-tumor activity. To address these challenges, we adopt multi-targeting strategies—developing dual-target or triple-target CAR-T cells—or utilize universal CAR-T cells derived from healthy donors, with the expectation that these donor-derived T cells will be less prone to exhaustion. In this way, we not only learn why certain approaches work but, more importantly, we analyze treatment failures to understand their causes and then refine our strategies for better outcomes.
I believe the most critical point here is that patients everywhere—whether in the United States, China, Europe, Vietnam, or elsewhere—face the same challenges in treating hematologic diseases. It is our collective responsibility to learn how to improve care, and this requires a global effort. We need to break down barriers, learn to collaborate, and share our experiences. This is why interactions like our meeting today, conversations between colleagues, and conferences such as the one we held last weekend are so vital—they enable us to truly share our insights and advance together.
As for the advice I would offer young physicians and scientists: this is an extraordinarily important undertaking, and you are in an exceptional environment. This institution and team are home to leaders who are deeply passionate about their work—a legacy rooted in Academician Lu Daopei, whose influence is pervasive here. The vision he embodies and the values he has instilled in his children, Peggy and Daniel, are truly inspirational. You are in a remarkable setting, surrounded by impactful advancements in the field, and you are part of a global effort to improve patient care. Honestly, I can say that pursuing a career in this field is one of the most extraordinary paths one can take. My message to young professionals is this: using science and technology to help people is an incredible endeavor, and there truly is no more meaningful pursuit than this.
專家簡介
陸佩華 教授
北京陸道培血液病研究院
陸道培醫(yī)院醫(yī)療執(zhí)行院長
北京陸道培血液病研究院院長
畢業(yè)于北京大學醫(yī)學院，在美國內布拉斯加大學醫(yī)學中心完成住院醫(yī)師培訓，隨后畢業(yè)于美國斯坦福大學血液及腫瘤?？?/p>
美國腫瘤以及血液病專科協(xié)會認證的血液及腫瘤專家，具有美國血液病專科醫(yī)生，腫瘤?？漆t(yī)生執(zhí)照以及中國行醫(yī)執(zhí)照
首都醫(yī)科大學腫瘤學系第四屆系務委員會委員
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中國非公立醫(yī)療機構協(xié)會血液病專業(yè)委員會主任委員
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北京醫(yī)學教育協(xié)會第七屆理事會理事
醫(yī)學界價值醫(yī)療泰山獎2021年度醫(yī)療管理獎獲得者
Robert Negrin 教授
斯坦福大學醫(yī)學教授
曾于2000至2020年間擔任血液與骨髓移植科主任。他本科畢業(yè)于加州大學伯克利分校，后獲哈佛大學醫(yī)學博士學位。在斯坦福大學完成內科學及血液學?？婆嘤柡?，他于1990年加入教研團隊。
其研究工作聚焦于細胞免疫學領域，重點探究動物模型及臨床環(huán)境中移植物抗宿主反應與移植物抗腫瘤反應等復雜生物作用的深層機制。已發(fā)表300余篇原創(chuàng)論文、40篇專著章節(jié)并參與編纂一部專著。
曾獲多項榮譽，包括Doris Duke杰出臨床科學家獎，并當選美國醫(yī)師協(xié)會會員。
曾擔任國際細胞治療學會主席及美國血液與骨髓移植學會主席
曾任《血液》期刊副主編并創(chuàng)辦《血液進展》期刊
2025年就任美國血液學會候任主席，并于2026年正式擔任主席職務。
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